Pocast# 153 – Marc Miller interviews You, You, Me, You author Jayne Mattson on networking and building relationships.
Jayne Mattson is a career management expert and author with deep experience in the corporate and private business sectors. She is also an accomplished facilitator, trainer, and coach. Jayne is known for inspiring and motivating individuals to explore career options and to help them build sustainable confidence. She helps mid-career professionals, providing guidance and services that help them take charge of their careers.
Jayne partners with the Boston Young Professional Association, writing articles for their blog on career-related topics. She is a frequent writer/contributor on career-related topics to CareerBuilder, Monster, CIO, Mashable, and other sites as well as print publications, including The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.
Jayne recently published a book, You, You, Me, You: The Art of Talking to People, Networking and Building Relationships. A strong believer in giving back, Jayne volunteers as a confidence coach with the Budget Buddies, a Massachusetts-based non-profit organization that is focused on improving the financial literacy of low-income women.
Marc is asking for your financial support for the Repurpose Your Career podcast. Please donate at Glow.fm/repurposeyourcareer to support this Podcast.
[1:14] Marc welcomes you to Episode 153 of the Repurpose Your Career podcast.
[1:28] If you are enjoying this podcast, please share it with other like-minded souls. Subscribe on CareerPivot.com, iTunes, or any of the other apps that supply podcasts. Share it on social media or just tell your neighbors and colleagues. The more people Marc reaches, the more people he can help.
[1:47] After three years of doing the Repurpose Your Career podcast it is time for a change. Marc talks about the financial concerns around the podcast and Marc’s Career Pivot business.
[3:04] A couple of weeks ago, Marc posted about “A Redesigned and Refocused Career Pivot After Attack.” He discussed the website and why he recently changed it.
[3:17] Because the business no longer supports the costs of production, Marc is making changes. Marc will eliminate the time-stamped podcast show notes with a detailed write-up of the show. About half of Marc’s listeners read the show notes. Marc will provide dramatically reduced notes.
[3:43] Marc acknowledges the production work of Podfly Productions, as he transitions the Repurpose Your Career podcast to in-house production. Marc recommends using the Podfly team if you want to start your own podcast!
[4:04] Marc will move to scheduling an episode every other week instead of the weekly schedule he has kept for three years. If Marc gets ahead on episodes over the next few months, he may revert to a weekly schedule.
[4:27] Marc will not publish an episode the week of U.S. Thanksgiving and will probably produce two episodes in December. On January 6th, 2020 Marc will start the regular biweekly schedule.
[4:44] If you would like to financially support this show, please go to Glow.fm/repurposeyourcareer/ to give. This link will be at the top of the show notes at CareerPivot.com/episode-153. Marc received the first donation this week — a one-time donation of $60.00 that will cover three months of podcast hosting services. Thank you!
[5:13] Next week’s episode will be an interview with returning guest John Tarnoff. John just published a LinkedIn Learning Online course, Connecting With Your Millennial Manager. Marc thinks it is incredibly well-done. We may all work sometime for a Millennial Manager.
[5:43] In this week’s episode, Marc interviews Jayne Mattson. Marc shares her bio. Marc hopes you enjoy this episode.
Now on to the podcast…
[7:06] Marc welcomes Jayne Mattson to the Repurpose Your Career podcast.
[7:47] Jayne gives the background on how she decided to write You, You, Me, You. As a career management consultant, she determined that she needed to focus on teaching people how to build relationships rather than how to network. People were not learning about the other person. She started to teach the principles of you, you, me, and you.
[9:25] People who are in transition or looking for another job need relationships. Relationships are more about the other person. Also, in the world of selfies, Jayne suggests you focus away from yourself and focus more on other people. These concerns provided Jayne the impetus to write a book about them.
[10:21] Marc’s networking goal is to start with the attitude, ‘How can I help other people?’ If he can help them, that’s great. He expects nothing in return. Jayne notes that people often expect networking to provide contacts, but contacts are earned, not given carelessly. There are many aspects of true relationship-building.
[11:16] Marc also notes that when you focus on the other person, you are more likable. In her book, Jayne refers to a couple of individuals who were influential in her career: Dale Carnegie and her father. Jayne’s father gave her Dale Carnegie’s book when she was 15. He told her, “If you read this book, you will always be successful.”
[11:55] Because of her father, Jayne read How to Win Friends & Influence People every year. Dale Carnegie’s principles are all about making the other person feel more special than you. Jayne has practiced that throughout her life and she has been successful.
[12:27] Jayne explains and role-plays the ‘you, you, me, you’ conversation in a networking situation. The point is to show that you are more interested in the other person than in your own interest. Show appreciation of their time, say why you are there, then close by thanking them for their time and looking forward to staying in touch.
[14:30] Networking is about soliciting help from other people along the way who are going to help you in your career endeavor. You want to be memorable to them when they think about a job opening.
[15:05] Most people in Austin have moved there. Marc would always ask “How did you get to Austin?” Everyone had a story. Marc would keep digging down with questions until he found something they had in common. Marc used standard questions that revealed a pattern.
[15:53] Jayne shares a networking experience she had with an introvert who read Jayne’s book before meeting her and came prepared with questions about what she had read in the book so she showed her interest. Always be curious and genuine. Don’t sound like you’re checking questions off a list. It will show.
[16:52] As you ask questions you will find commonality and ease your way into the conversation. If you show you are willing to help them, they will also be willing to help you.
[17:20] The ‘you, you, me, you’ concept is about building relationships. Jayne talks about the different stages of relationship-building in the book: Initiating it, developing rapport, and establishing the relationship. The most important concept is sustainability. Stay informed and connected to them, through LinkedIn or even hand-written notes.
[18:49] As you build relationships, practice the steps in the book with people with whom you are already comfortable. Eventually, it will become a habit and you will see people reacting to you in a more genuine collaborative way. It will be a connection of the heart.
[19:30] Marc’s friend, Thom Singer, a public speaker, suggests writing a hand-written card and sticking your business card in it.
[20:03] Jayne recommends, especially to young people, to get personalized stationery. When you send a note, your name will always be at the top, to remind them who you are and how you met. You want them to remember your name.
[21:32] Jayne says, no matter how bad your handwriting is, people will notice that you took the thought and effort to send a personal note.
[22:36] Jayne makes a point of explaining the ‘y’ in her name. It makes her memorable.
[23:13] Marc takes a break from the interview to talk about the Career Pivot Membership Community, which continues to help the approximately 50 members who are participating in the beta phase of this project to grow and thrive.
[23:27] Marc reads a member testimonial from community member Cleo: “I joined the Career Pivot Community as a frustrated over-60 job seeker looking for some support and I did find that in this group.
[23:40] “Marc is wise in the ways of self-analysis, job search, and small business and is able to help encourage and poke group members to find meaningful work. I have improved my online presence and reputation, found freelance work, established a path to future employment that makes sense.
[24:00] “You get out of the community what you put into it. If you engage regularly, you will find people with a wide range of skills who are more than willing to support and advise other community members and you can gain inspiration seeing what they achieve.” Marc wants you to see that it’s not just Marc, it’s the community.
[24:25] This is a paid membership community where Marc offers group coaching, special content, mastermind groups, branding sessions, Slack channels, and more importantly, it’s a community where you can seek help. Please go to CareerPivot.com/Community to sign up to learn more.
[24:45] Marc asks Jayne about sticky situations, such as not knowing how to extract yourself from a conversation. Work with how you feel about people, in general. If you look at them unfavorably, you may unthinkingly dismiss someone rudely. If you remember that everyone has a story to tell, you may be more gentle breaking it off.
[25:54] Jayne suggests a positive script for bringing a long conversation to a close when you need to move on. Treat people with respect and dignity. Make sure not to offend. You never know how this person will come into your life again.
[27:08] Jayne gives an example of a person who needs to develop a rapport with a client but also needs to let the client know that what they did was inappropriate. You need good communication skills while developing and maintaining a relationship.
[27:51] Jayne talks about the reach of social media. Practice the same principles on social media. On LinkedIn, you can like someone’s post, comment on it, and share it. That is giving back to the person with whom you want to build a relationship.
[28:35] Jayne talks about how she connected with Kerry Hannon on LinkedIn and is maintaining a great online relationship with her after first hearing and admiring her on Marc’s podcast.
[29:05] On Facebook or Instagram, as you connect with people, don’t make it just pitches about you. Make sure you have something valuable to say. Jayne also encourages people to spend less time on social media and pick up your phone for a conversation with someone. When you post on social media, help others.
[30:06] If you live near someone, invite them offline to meet in person.
[30:22] On LinkedIn, Jayne answers requests for connections with a request first to know more about what that person does. Jayne does not want clicks, she wants a personal introduction that can start more of a relationship.
[30:54] Marc talks about his book team. His co-author, Susan Lahey, now lives in Porto, Portugal. His book cover designer, MamiSerwaa, now lives in Ghana. They do most of their talking over the phone through Facebook Messenger. Marc calls them from Mexico.
[31:32] Younger generations may not know what to say on the phone. You start by finding common interests. Jayne is planning a local “Conversation Saturday” for middle schoolers of how to have conversations over the phone or in person, instead of by text. We are human and we need socialization.
[33:21] Marc includes some advice from his Multigenerational Workplace talk. If I want you to listen to me, I have to adapt to your preferred communication style. Boomers liked to be talked to. Millennials like to be texted.
[34:30] Jayne follows Lindsey Pollak on LinkedIn. Lindsey Pollak wrote Remix: How to Lead and Succeed in the Multigenerational Workplace on this topic. It is important to be adaptable and resilient. The ‘you, you, me, you’ concept is memorable and easy to use for any generation.
[35:39] Jayne’s closing advice to the audience is we, collectively, have a responsibility to each other, to the people around us, not to use our cell phones while we are with someone. Be with the person in front of you. Jayne wrote this into her book, and she recommends that you buy the book for young people. Don’t lose the human touch.
[36:55] Jayne wants us to come back to face-to-face conversations. Use the ‘you, you, me, you’ concept to build relationships. Look people in the eye. Say, “It’s a pleasure to meet you.”
[37:45] You can reach Jayne Mattson on LinkedIn. She doesn’t connect with people who just send a request. Tell her why you want to connect with her and tell her about your relationship-building skills. You can follow Jayne Mattson on Instagram.
[38:16] You can order You, You, Me, You: The Art of Talking to People, Networking and Building Relationships on Amazon in paperback, ebook, and in 2020, in Audible.
[38:37] Marc shares that he is about to produce the third edition of Repurpose Your Career in audiobook. Marc thanks Jayne for being on the Repurpose Your Career podcast.
[38:56] Marc hopes you enjoyed that episode. Marc has known Jayne for a number of years. Jayne is passionate about networking and helping people.
[39:08] The career Pivot Membership Community continues to help the approximately 50 members who are participating in the Beta phase of this project to grow and thrive. This is a community where everyone is there to help everyone else. Marc has just brought in a cohort and he is recruiting new members for the next cohort.
[39:23] If you are interested in the Career Pivot Membership Community and would like to be put on a waiting list, please go to CareerPivot.com/Community.
[39:36] Marc invites you to connect with him on LinkedIn.com/in/mrmiller. Just include in the connection request that you listen to this podcast. You can look for Career Pivot on Facebook, LinkedIn, or @CareerPivot on Twitter.
[39:48] Please come back next week when Marc will interview John Tarnoff, author of the LinkedIn Learning course Connecting with Your Millennial Manager!
[39:47] Please support the Repurpose Your Career podcast by going to Glow.fm/repurposeyourcareer. This link is also at the top of the show notes.
[40:21] Please hop over to CareerPivot.com and subscribe to get updates on this podcast and all the other happenings at Career Pivot. You can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, the Google Podcasts app, Podbean, the Overcast app, or the Spotify app and soon to be on Pandora!Marc Miller
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